Ep 491 – Common Challenges and How to Overcome Them with Kristin Coverly

0:00:00.2 Speaker 1: Massage therapists. Are you looking to enhance your skills and improve your practice? Here's your chance. The American Massage Conference is back. This three-day event will be at Disney Springs in Orlando May 16th to 18th and kicks off with Free Friday which is open to everyone. The weekend has over 20 educators offering approved continuing education and a tribute to the late great Eric Dalton as well as nightly cocktail receptions to network and unwind. Head over to massagetherapymedia.com/conferences to secure your pass and and join us in connecting therapists globally.

0:00:35.4 Kristin Coverly: Hello and welcome to the ABMP Podcast. I'm Kristin Coverly, Massage Therapist, Educator and as Director of Professional Education for ABMP, I create CE courses and events for massage and bodywork practitioners and I have the opportunity to host this podcast and create what I call compopods. I pick a theme and ask several leaders in our profession to share their thoughts. Same questions, different answers which gives us a compilation of thoughts, ideas and inspiration. I spoke with Les Sweeney, Whitney Lowe and Ruth Warner for this episode, all amazing people I'm collaborating with on upcoming ABMP events. Les and I will co-host the ABMP School Forum.

0:01:21.0 KC: It's a conference for massage and body work educators in April in Denver and Whitney and Ruth are combining their superpowers to co teach a course for the May 6th ABMP CE Summit: Neck. This online event, including three hours of CE is free for everyone in the profession, so learn more and Register today at abmp.com/summit. I asked my guests this two parter question. What's a common challenge for you and how do you overcome it? My first guest is Les Sweeney, ABMP President and CEO. Hi Les, what's a common challenge for you and how do you overcome it? 

0:02:02.3 Les Sweeney: I would say my most common challenge these days, and this is a reflection of my age, is time management is just how do I get the stuff done that I need to get done in the time that I have? And also how do I create boundaries so that I have some of that time that I'm so zealously trying to guard to keep within my control. And it's not professional or personal, it's just everything. So it depends on the day and what it is and what's going on, etcetera. But it just always feels like you're chasing your tail, trying to make sure you either get ahead of it or catch up. And so there's always a little bit of a struggle to say am I right in the middle where I'd like to be? And I think an extension of that is just one of the ways you do that is managing your boundaries. And by that I mean not saying yes to everything, but also trying to be thoughtful at the same time. And I always kind of have a push and pull with that of I want to be responsive and helpful and supportive and especially in my role as president of the organization.

0:03:14.0 LS: We have 58 employees. I want to be there for them when needed and present. And so, yeah, it gets to be a juggling act from time to time, but that's not novel or new. I'm sure a lot of people have the same challenge and it's just, you know, it's always there. It's not something you'll ever master. It's just how you figure out how to kind of continue to ride the wave and manage it as best you can.

0:03:38.1 KC: Have you found any specific strategies or tools like apps or organizers that have helped you with the time management or creating boundaries? 

0:03:47.6 LS: One of the things that's helped me, maybe not on the boundary side, but at least in terms of getting things done or not failing, I guess, would be a better way to characterize it. I have an app that's called Todoist. T-O-D-O-I-S-T and you can have it for your computer and your phone. And I use it for projects. I use it to remind myself that on the 8th of every month, the dogs get their heartworm pill. And then I also put a daily reminder to go to bed at a decent time or things like that. And some of these things that sometimes seem silly, you actually kind of make mechanical. But I find, as I tend to joke, if it's not on my calendar or my to do list, there's a very good chance it's lost in the ether. Somewhere between this vast space between these two ears, which is full of Seinfeld quotes and trivia and other things that sometimes swallow up all important data.

0:04:40.7 KC: All valuable, every piece of information and Seinfeld quote has its place in our brains.

0:04:47.4 LS: Not that there's anything wrong with it.

0:04:50.4 KC: Last question you mentioned setting boundaries and not immediately saying yes to everything. What tips do you have for people who find that really challenging? 

0:05:00.8 KC: This question reminds me of back when I used to organize and prepare the ABMP school forum and we would have a topic that people would be on, I would ask them to serve on the panel, and their first thing they'd say on the panel was, well, I had a question about this and then you put me on the panel. So you're asking me for the solution and I'm looking for the solution. It's always a challenge. I just try to... I've found in myself that I have to just be a little bit more deliberate. And there's a way to do so without being rude. And I struggle with that because not the rude part. I think I'm probably the opposite. I think I just accommodate. And then afterwards I resent it. And I don't resent the person. I resent the fact that I didn't kind of be a little bit more diligent with my time structure. And the thing I've learned is I've just observed, I've seen some other people, some of our teammates are really good at that, better at that than I am. And I try to just model some of those things sometimes and say, you can't do everything and be great at everything all the time.

0:06:04.4 LS: And I'm trying to get a passing grade on most things most of the time. Basically, it's my objective. And so sometimes you have to say, I don't have the capacity to handle that right now, but here's what I can do. And no one likes to be told an abrupt no. And so it's nice to be able to have an option that says, I would definitely want to help you. It's going to take me till this date, or I can't for this reason, or I can help you find the solution or find someone else who can help you do it, but I just may not have that capacity. One of the things that I try to encourage amongst our team is, are you working on the highest order activity that you should be? And it's like, doctor, take your own medicine. Like, I think the same thing. And I find myself not being able to honestly answer that sometimes. I'm like, no, I'm probably not. But also I am sometimes working on things that only land on my desk or my lap. And that happens at home too, or in relationships, etcetera. So I always just try to use that as an evaluation tool to say, is this productive use of my time or is it something somebody else can do just as well or better and might even have more enthusiasm towards it? Or no, just suck it up and get it done. And sometimes that's the right answer.

0:07:24.7 KC: I think we can all relate to Les's challenges of time management and setting boundaries. I feel like we can call these universal human challenges almost. I really resonated with what he shared about prioritizing projects and employing the gentler version of no by saying, I don't have the capacity for that right now. But here's what I can do. My next guest is Ruth Werner, pathology expert, author and CE provider. Ruth, thanks so much for being on my compopod. Here's my question for you. What's a common challenge and how do you overcome it? 

0:08:04.2 Ruth Werner: It took me a couple of minutes to decide on one to share. But the one I'll decide on is, you know, the one that is sort of most top of mind at this moment and it has to do with aging and capacity. So a common problem for me is figuring out what is a realistic amount of stuff I can do in a given amount of time and do it well. And I'm finding that as I age, the amount of time that I need to accomplish certain tasks is greater and greater. On the other hand, I feel like I'm doing those tasks better because of years of experience behind them. But it's been a really interesting part of this phase of aging to figure out am I just really, do I just, am I dealing with monkey mind that I can't settle in on this project or am I just allowed to go easy on myself and say, yep, that's all that's happening today and now I need to go do something else. And it is a constant challenge for me A, to thread that needle, right, to figure out where, where I am with that and do I, you know, really just need a 10-minute walk and then go back and hit it again or am I really done? Because that's all that this brain is gonna squeeze out in this period of time and it's a moving target.

0:09:28.5 RW: And for whatever reason I'm in this weird phase of aging. I'm 64 and never been 64 before. And there are different things about being this age that I've never experienced before. I'm used to being able to look at the scope of a project and say, okay, I can have that done in this number of hours and usually be pretty right on with it. And that is just no longer happening for me. So the way I'm coping with it is to be extremely self forgiving and to fall back on a pattern that I love and suggest to everybody, which is to underpromise and overdeliver. So when someone says how long do you need to do this thing? I typically will double the amount of time that I think it's going to take. And then if I get it in early, that's frosting and if I don't, that's okay because I'm still keeping my promise. So that's it for me is the struggle of finding, of figuring out what my capacity to do Things is as I get older.

0:10:36.1 KC: And I think that's really a valuable lesson, not just for someone who's aging and at a certain age that things might be shifting, but anytime throughout their lives where their capacity might be changed because of stress or because of external obligations or the family needs more time right now or whatever that might be. And that's really hard, isn't it, to recognize that and make the shifts.

0:10:58.7 RW: Especially when you're used to being able to do things in a certain amount of time with a certain level of skill and be proud of that, and then that changes. And you're absolutely right. It's not exclusive to aging. It can encompass anything else that's taking up your bandwidth. The more things there are in your bandwidth, the less room you have to do the things that you promised you're gonna do. But for me, one of the worst feelings I ever have is not being able to keep a promise. So it's just critically important that I organize my life so that I don't make promises I'm not really, really sure that I can keep.

0:11:37.0 KC: And do you find yourself in a position where you're saying no more often than you have in the past? Because that's also tricky.

0:11:44.5 RW: No. But I am also giving myself more time to do things. So when opportunities arise and people come to me and say, here, I have this project. Can you help me with it? I can say something like, rather than, oh, yeah, sure, I'll have this for you next week. It'll be, I can do this for you, and it will be ready by next month.

0:12:05.0 KC: I love how Ruth shared her process of recognizing a change and then adjusting to accommodate her awareness that her bandwidth has changed, which, let's face it, happens to all of us at different times, is the first step. But then critically, not ignoring that and continuing on as if nothing has changed, but adjusting her timelines to, as she says, underpromise and overdeliver so she continues to meet her deadlines and feel good about the process. That's the key. I'm sure we can all identify probably several areas of our lives that aren't quite working as is that could use an adjustment to cause less stress. So I'm going to encourage all of us to use Ruth as an inspiration to do that.

0:12:52.5 Speaker 1: Let's take a short break to hear a word from our sponsors. Anatomy Trains is thrilled to invite you to our 2025 summer program on the coast of Maine, featuring courses for both manual therapists and movement professionals. Instructors include Tom Myers, Till Luca, Wojtek Szadkowski, and Sharon Wheeler. Come for the world class education and stay for a vacation on one of the most beautiful coastlines in the country. Visit anatomytrains.com for details. Let's get back to our conversation.

0:13:21.8 KC: My third guest is Whitney Lowe, educator, author and CE provider with the Academy of Clinical Massage. Whitney, thanks so much for being a guest on the podcast. What's a common challenge for you and how do you overcome it? 

0:13:38.2 Whitney Lowe: So here's a common one that I have to grapple with. I have a tendency sometimes to, I guess, what's the phrase, chase too many rabbits, I think is the phrase, which is, you know, I do get distracted by shiny new things of thinking about new ways to do stuff with our courses or new things that are happening, new tools that I could be using or things like that. I'm really sort of easily captivated by the new and different and they also stimulate ideas for me too about like, oh, we could really do something really fascinating or really engaging this way. But at the end of the day, you have to draw the line somewhere about like you have to keep going with certain things and not get too distracted by those kinds of things. And so I recognized that pattern in myself quite some time ago and I saw this little graphic somebody had put up somewhere on their, I don't know, on a webpage or a Facebook thing or meme or something, somewhere. I thought, that's it, I got to put, I got to make a copy. So I made a little copy of this.

0:14:42.3 WL: A little graphic sits on my wall just over the top of my desk over here. Got a picture of a little delivery truck and it says, what have you shipped? The essence of that, meaning everybody has ideas, everybody has distractions, but what have you followed through on and really taken to the end that it's ready to go out the door and be something for somebody. So that's how I kind of grapple with that process of keeping this in mind. Like there's all this fancy stuff out there that might attract us and distract us, but at the end of the day, like, what did you really get done with all that? That's the key point, I think.

0:15:20.3 KC: When you've got a lot of options, how do you prioritize? What tools do you use to prioritize from all of the things you could be doing to the things that are the best use of your time? 

0:15:31.2 WL: I think I try to kind of sit down and say, like, do I really need to pursue this or do I really need to do this? What's going to be the benefit? What are my best return on investment outcomes. If I invest a lot of time or money or energy into doing this, what are going to be the real best outcomes that are going to come from that? And so that's what I really try to zero in on and saying like, okay, this is cool and interesting, but it's not going to be the best return thing other than maybe if you spent some more of your time just doing some of the mundane rudimentary things that really need to get taken care of, those are going to be more important at this point.

0:16:11.4 KC: Whitney's answer is so relatable, isn't it? It's so easy to get distracted by the shiny new thing and get pulled away from what's important and needs to be finished, but may not be as fun. And I love the visual of the delivery truck and the question what have you shipped? I find it so interesting, but not completely surprising that there are two similar themes running through the answers from all three of my guests. Time management and prioritizing. We have so much to juggle as humans. I think we'll always be looking at new ways to prioritize what's important and and make time for those things. My ongoing challenge is navigating the gap or chasm really, that's how I usually describe it. Between knowing and doing or wanting and doing. For example, exercising regularly, eating only whole foods, nothing packaged or pre-made, meditating daily. You get the picture. Most of us have a list like that with a few things on it that we'd like to do differently. With all of these things I have good weeks, then not so good weeks. Start, stop, on, off, and what it comes down to, of course what my challenge really is is changing habits.

0:17:22.4 KC: And that's a capital B biggie. So let's dive into it. I've been studying the science and research behind habits and it is fascinating. And of course there are a lot of strategies based on that research. Choosing a successful approach really comes down to to matching the person and the habit and what you want to do. Do you want to change or eliminate an existing habit? Add a new habit? So you kind of have to sort through all of the options for strategies and find what works best for each situation. There are however, some overarching suggestions that apply to any situation. First is identify potential hurdles and problem solve solutions to those right away, before you even get started, ask yourself what do I get from staying as is making no change. And then ask yourself what do I get from changing? Visualize how you and your life will be different after you change, drop or add the habit. It can be really powerful. And last, identify specific behaviors you want to change. Instead of eat healthier, it's eat fish for dinner two nights a week. So really make them attainable goals and habits you can actually accomplish.

0:18:39.6 KC: I could spend hours exploring this with you and would completely geek out over doing that, but since we don't have hours, I'll share two specific strategies that have worked for me recently with the hope that they might work for you too. The first strategy is to attach a new habit to an existing habit, something you're already doing consistently. Here's my example. I had been really sporadic about taking my probiotic. My goal was to take it daily, but somehow because it's refrigerated and the rest of my supplements aren't, and because I should take it at a different time than my other supplements, it became much more of a challenge to take it daily than it seems like it ever should have been. I do not know how that was so hard, but it was. So I decided to attach it to a habit I was already doing consistently and successfully. When I get home from work, I give my dog a treat and then off we go on our evening walk. So I attached my taking my probiotic to my existing habit of giving Zozo her treat and now I do it consistently and say I do say this out loud.

0:19:43.1 KC: I can't help it. A treat for you, a treat for me every day and then off we go on our walk. That's an example of attaching a new habit to an existing habit. The second strategy I've been using comes from Mel Robbins, motivational speaker, author and podcaster, and her book and concept The 5 Second rule. Her 5-second rule helps people move from thinking to doing to close that gap I talked about earlier. The tool is simple. The moment you have an instinct to act on a goal, you must say 5 4, 3, 2, 1 and physically move or your brain will stop you. She shares a lot of the research that shows why the strategy works in the book and I encourage you to explore it. One of the main concepts is there's a five second window between the urge to move and take action and your brain stopping the urge. If you don't act in that five second window, your brain will stop you from taking action as a protection measure. The 5-second rule becomes a starting ritual, using it to create a repeated behavior which then creates a new habit. Here's an example of how I use the 5-second rule to create a new habit.

0:20:53.8 KC: I wanted to change my behavior around opening mail. I know it sounds simple, but man, it became a real, like, annoying thing for me. My old habit was to pull out the fun stuff, cards from friends and, you know, good things that make me happy, magazines, whatever it might be, and put the rest on a pile that I would then go through every maybe three or four days. Nothing structured. It turned into what I called Mount Mail as it grew in size. And I wanted to say see you later to Mount Mail and go through every piece of mail every day. So I used the 5-second rule. After I got back from my evening walk with Zozo, probiotic in my belly, I would get the mail, put it on the table, say 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, go, clap my hands and pick up an envelope and get started. I added the go and the clap because, you know, that seemed right to me and a little more fun. So make it yours. After doing that 5-second rule ritual for a few weeks, daily mail became a locked in habit and I no longer needed to use it.

0:21:54.3 KC: I was consistently keeping mount Mail from forming. So I'm curious, is there a habit you've been struggling to add or change that could be attached to an existing habit? Is there a situation where you could use the 5-second rule as a starting ritual to create a repeated behavior which then becomes a new habit? It's fun to think about, isn't it? And I do encourage you to explore the 5-second rule more. There's so much more there than I was able to share in this podcast, so I encourage you to check that out and I hope this compopod has given you some inspiration and some ideas and tools you can use to overcome your common challenges. Please share your thoughts and ideas with me by emailing me at CE that stands for Continuing Education, ce@abmp.com. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful day.